It must be discussed...

[Dian]

I am in a limbo right now, and I doubt I am alone here.. Having been developing a shard for years and years, I have been on idle with a RunUO 2.2 that has had ML content added, good bit towards SA among other stuff that is now somewhat included in RunUO 2.5 and ServUO.

I am really torn between where to go with my server. I want to stay in the loop with a distro, but it is really becoming hard to decide what direction to go, guys.
Heres the problem..

Neither RunUO or ServUO has really been updated in months(years for RUO). Although this is somewhat typical, I know the moment I update to one, a new release will come out, forcing me to do it over again. If I wait for the next new release, it will drag out for another year. I know a lot of you guys know this dilemma. The problem I have is why its so tough for a developer, even if he/she knows they will not have anything to add for awhile, why do they just disappear?? Is it so tough to pop on the forum once a week and just say "hey I am alive" ?

I really would like to transform my server over into ServUO, for the most part, so I can become more of a part of this community. I really like it here. I am limited to what I can offer for help, being I am not currently using ServUO, and its like a void.

I just really want to know whats going on around here, though. Months back it was announced that the developers here would take on a new procedure of operations, ensuring a regular interval of updates. Well, right after that was posted, and our hopes went through the roof.. the update(s) never happened, and said developer(s) disappear. That is troubling.

I have never used the GitHub deal, pushing.. pulling.. whatever. I guess I should get setup with that stuff, but it still does not make the future any brighter. I been following along around here for quite awhile now, just waiting to see how things will come together, but unfortunately it hasnt yet. Besides the great bunch of people, I have to honestly say that it seems like development is really non existent beyond the members here.

Bleh.. I could keep going on and on with my rant, but I think you all get the idea where I am going with this..

So, I guess what I am saying is.. What can I do to help get things back on track??? I really am no programmer. I do very well with the C# code for RunUO/ServUO in itself, but for me to just start with a blank sheet of paper.. yeah right.

I need some direction.. I am just worried that ServUO is going to become similar to RunUO as far as development. Having one main dude in control of the whole thing ultimately is a serious hang up. I dont mean to sound insulting, and seriously am not trying to put anyone down, but this has to be discussed!

I will do whatever I can to help within my abilities to get this back in order. I really have more faith in ServUO's future over RunUO.. and I hate saying that about RunUO in itself, having spend some 13 years there.

Sorry if this stings a little.. I dont know how to put it any sweeter

 

[Dian]

FYI;
This all came about from me because I have been putting off updating my server for about 6 months. I finally decided the other day to just push on with Mark's RUO 2.5, however since I have the ML and most SA, Imbuing... his is not fully done, mine is mostly done.. but neither two are anything alike. I been two days into converting, and I have a massive headache.

It would nearly be easier to use a fresh ServUO and add my content in, modifying the few serializations to various base scripts... and move on. But now that I have gotten this far, I am back to being confused again!

LOL

I might just take up drinking again...

Help me Doc! Talk me out of that one! HAH

 

[m309]

I feel your pain. I think the main thing that differs from RunUO and ServUO is that ServUO can be modded, updated and developed by anyone by using GitHub, and then approved and merged by a Developer. So really, any or all of us can help with development. I personally have no interest in OSI/EA/Broadsword accuracy, so really therefor no time to dedicate to bringing ServUO to the current state of pay-to-play UO for the sake of it being a starting point as it doesn't benefit me at all (aside from the learning that would occur along the way).

All of that being said, we still need a Dev team that actually reviews and merges those updates and additions. Toriad took the reigns for a good bit and pushed out a lot of bugfixes and updates, and came up with the amazing dev stages that were released. Unfortunately right at that time his job also came crashing down and he's been working ridiculous amounts of overtime ever since. Sadly though if you look at the list of Developers, Toriad is the only one that has been semi-active and contributing in a good while.

I think it might just be time to remove the "old" missing Devs from the team list and add some members that are active and willing to push forward. Of course this would all be up to Insanity.

 

[Ravenwolfe]

I'm still here, but I have no access to merge. I can fix bugs and push changes but they will not be merged until someone who has permissions can do it.

The problem is, I'm not sure what has been done already and who is working on what. I hate to duplicate work that is done or is being done.

Dian, its worth spending some time learning Github. That way you can pull changes in without messing up your custom files. I'm like you, totally self-taught and it took me a few days to understand Github. Once I did, it was totally worth it!

 

[m309]

Ahah. Thats good to know Ravenwolfe. Next time I see Insanity on IRC I'll pester him about getting you merging access etc. Seems pointless to have you working on anything without the ability to add it in (especially being designated a Developer).

 

[Ravenwolfe]

Actually, I understand why I don't have that permission. I'm still new to Github and I don't want to screw up the main development. I don't think I'm at that level. However, we do need someone who can merge in changes (there are like 3 pending) and also we need someone assigning out issues so that we are not duplicating work.

 

[Hank]

The problem I have is why its so tough for a developer, even if he/she knows they will not have anything to add for awhile, why do they just disappear??

I've been asking this same question to myself and friends for years!

Having one main dude in control of the whole thing ultimately is a serious hang up.

I completely agree. Insanity did take some steps to insure certain people had access to certain things but I do think it's time to re-evaluate that list and touch base with those who are still active.

I think it might just be time to remove the "old" missing Devs from the team list and add some members that are active and willing to push forward.

I agree and stepping off how I replied to the last quote those devs who are still active should be given the appropriate access to insure the quality and upkeep of the servuo name and project.

I realize this is a hobby for many of you. I am about to present an extreme example so bear with me. A person gets a job then doesn't show up to work for days at a time, comes back and expects to still have the job. It just doesn't make sense.

The problem is, I'm not sure what has been done already and who is working on what. I hate to duplicate work that is done or is being done.

This was supposed to be one of the big reasons the team decided to use github and a structure for how people made commits. I can quote Toriad on this.

In conclusion I am in agreeance with you fine gentlemen. While I respect Insanity and his goals, We need to have active members of the community who have the skills required to achieve these goals and the proper documentation to back them up if they in the future need to step down or move aside. It has been too long since the last updates to the github and there are a few pull requests waiting for review which have not even been touched. How could this possibly boast well for the community seeing such little activity, even community pull requests.
Long Live Servuo.

 

[Ravenwolfe]

This was supposed to be one of the big reasons the team decided to use github and a structure for how people made commits. I can quote Toriad on this.

Github helps in that it tells us what issues are out there to fix and we can see each others work AFTER they are submitted as pull requests. However, there is no one to assign the issues and it impossible to tell if someone is working on their local system on one of the issues. It looks to me like the issues can be assigned, but someone with admin access to the development project has to do this. Basically, we lack a central co-ordinator (project lead) at this time.

Toriad was doing a good job with this but sounds like work has him under.

And before you suggest it, I neither have admin access, nor would I make a good project lead


I'm a doer, not a planner.

 

[Dian]

Thanks guys, for not mistaking my post for just some rant. I have been hesitant to come out with this, in fear it would be taken the wrong way.

I am in no way putting labels on anyone, and I know as good as anyone what its like to loose interest in this stuff from time to time. I am sure that is some of the issue here, to be honest. This is all voluntary work in the end, but I have just seen so many projects just vanish, leaving a community of people just hanging after investing a lot of time for nothing, only because the head dude just cant bear to let the reins be handed off to someone else capable.. And in many cases, the lead guy just cant accept not having the full power of the project. Not claiming thats what I think is going on here, but I have seen it many times within the UO community.

I am just about to drop my RUO 2.5 updating to be honest, for various reasons. And if so, I will take the leap of faith in pushing forward with the ServUO conversion for my shard. Partly just to be able to offer myself as more helpful around here. Who knows, maybe we could create a couple official ServUO shards down the road.. One true to OSI game style accuracy, and another (like mine, or mine) that is custom mapped and game mechanics that could help pull the community together. Just dont advertise any other shard, by god!! just kidding

But seriously, if theres anything I can do to help pull this back together, I am here.

 

[Dian]

Some joker already created an account on GitHub with my name! man, if I find that clown

 

[TheDoc]

I hear ya, Dian.. I noticed development has slowed. I checked out mark's 2.5 repository too. He seems to update it a lot. I feel ya on the wanting to take up drinking again lol j/k, but some days....